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Science Fiction » alt.startrek » [NEWS] - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed
| [NEWS] - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279264] |
Mo, 19 Juni 2006 15:58 |
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Post removed (X-No-Archive: yes)
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279270 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 01:42 |
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Well, I read through the "treatment" and I've got to say that I'm glad
they didn't do it.
I kind of like the idea of the Star Trek Re-Boot. Much of the energy
that comes through from the treatment would have been exciting. But,
but I don't like the ideas they give for the series.
A search of an ancient race sounds a lot like the Shadows and Vorlons
of B5 fame. Did anyone else notice that B5 sort of ended with the
founding of the "Federation"?
The "secret genetic code" hidden in the DNA of all sentient races was
one of the bad episodes of ST:TNG (Bad because it is bad science --
really bad science -- the story itself was ok). B5 suffered from the
bad science too (Telepaths are scientifically impossible, which means
they are not science fiction. Fantasy perhaps, but not science
fiction).
Some of the fan episodes that are found on the web (Starship Exeter
comes to mind) are fun, exciting, re-boots of the Star Trek universe.
Give these folks, or folks like them, a little training, experience and
money and you will really see Star Trek shine.
As for all of you ready to close to coffin on Star Trek, I give you the
iconic phrase that kept all of us going in the 70's: Star Trek Lives!
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279271 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 01:52 |
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On 19 Jun 2006 16:42:51 -0700, "Bones" <mahop1 [at] yahoo.com> wrote:
>The "secret genetic code" hidden in the DNA of all sentient races was
>one of the bad episodes of ST:TNG (Bad because it is bad science --
>really bad science -- the story itself was ok). B5 suffered from the
>bad science too (Telepaths are scientifically impossible, which means
>they are not science fiction.
Any series that has faster than light travel has no basis for getting
snooty about the possibility of telepathy.
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279272 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 02:02 |
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"Bones" <mahop1 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1150760571.525215.188910 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
<snip for brevity>
> As for all of you ready to close to coffin on Star Trek, I give you the
> iconic phrase that kept all of us going in the 70's: Star Trek Lives!
Indeed.
As I replied to a freind that said "Star Trek is dead."
"As Spock said, "I've been dead before."
--
Qapla'
Kweeg
Ten of Canadian Clubs in the Eeeevil Trek Cabal
"Half a gallon a'scotch!" Scotty (Spectre of the Gun)
1,079,252,848.8 km/h, not just a good idea, it's the law.
"So say we all!"
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279277 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 03:44 |
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"Bones" <mahop1 [at] yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> The "secret genetic code" hidden in the DNA of all sentient races was
> one of the bad episodes of ST:TNG (Bad because it is bad science --
> really bad science -- the story itself was ok). B5 suffered from the
> bad science too (Telepaths are scientifically impossible, which means
> they are not science fiction. Fantasy perhaps, but not science
> fiction).
>
Impossible according to our *current* understanding of science. The Vorlons
were a few million years ahead of us in that regard. <g>
--
Jack of Hearts in The Eeeeevil Cabal (TINC...)
E-mail - quake2lives AT gmail DOT com
Website - http://www.evilbill.org.uk.
There is no spoon.
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| Re: [NEWS] - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279279 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 14:46 |
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Stan Jensen wrote:
> The treatment called for a re-imagining of the original series,
> centering on the three main characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy, set
> on the U.S.S. Enterprise on its first five-year mission to "seek out
> new worlds and new civilizations, to boldly go where no person has
> gone before." The new version of the show would have featured a new
> cast and new storylines, while adhering to the established mythology
> of the series.
Star Trek already had a "reboot." It was called Star Trek: The Motion
Picture.
I'd rather they explore the 5 year mission of Kirk, Spock, & McCoy that
is said to have occurred after TMP and before Wrath of Khan. There's
plenty of stuff that could be done with a series like that. ;-)
--
OSI
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279280 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 17:39 |
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> one of the bad episodes of ST:TNG (Bad because it is bad science --
> really bad science -- the story itself was ok). B5 suffered from the
> bad science too (Telepaths are scientifically impossible, which means
> they are not science fiction. Fantasy perhaps, but not science
> fiction).
I *knew* you were going to say that.
;-)
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279281 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 23:03 |
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Bones wrote:
> Well, I read through the "treatment" and I've got to say that I'm glad
> they didn't do it.
>
> I kind of like the idea of the Star Trek Re-Boot. Much of the energy
> that comes through from the treatment would have been exciting. But,
> but I don't like the ideas they give for the series.
>
> A search of an ancient race sounds a lot like the Shadows and Vorlons
> of B5 fame. Did anyone else notice that B5 sort of ended with the
> founding of the "Federation"?
Of course.
That's why I initially opposed Enterprise. ;-)
>
> The "secret genetic code" hidden in the DNA of all sentient races was
> one of the bad episodes of ST:TNG (Bad because it is bad science --
> really bad science -- the story itself was ok). B5 suffered from the
> bad science too (Telepaths are scientifically impossible, which means
> they are not science fiction. Fantasy perhaps, but not science
> fiction).
True in a sence. But Star Trek had telepaths too.
And beings like Q.
>
> Some of the fan episodes that are found on the web (Starship Exeter
> comes to mind) are fun, exciting, re-boots of the Star Trek universe.
> Give these folks, or folks like them, a little training, experience
> and money and you will really see Star Trek shine.
I'm all for that.
>
> As for all of you ready to close to coffin on Star Trek, I give you
> the iconic phrase that kept all of us going in the 70's: Star Trek
> Lives!
As long as there are fans yes.
As for this 'treatment', I would have given it a try, fully understanding
it's 'just' the B-universe. A parallel franchise.
--
Wouter Valentijn
www.wouter.cc
www.nksf.nl
www.zeppodunsel.nl
liam=mail
"The best diplomat I know is a fully activated phaser bank."
Mister Scott, 'A Taste of Armageddon', Star Trek.
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279282 ] |
Di, 20 Juni 2006 23:21 |
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Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
everyone??
Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
tell *new* stories.
And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to still
tell interesting, gripping stories. Their only real advance over the
tech Kirk had in his day is site-to-site transporting and
total-immersion video games. Even the trekverse galaxy is a very very
very big place, with lots of adventure still left in it.
*****
The Joker in the Eeeeeeeeeevil Cabal deck of cards.
"You're a figment of my imagination- the *least* you could do is take
your top off!!"
Rodney McKay to his hallucination of Samantha Carter
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279283 ] |
Mi, 21 Juni 2006 01:28 |
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Really would not want to see a reimagining like BSG, course would not
mind a new series.
Peace
Zonker
http://2000ah.blogspot.com
Stan Jensen wrote:
> Secret Trek Treatment Revealed
>
> In 2004, television producer Bryce Zabel (The Crow: Stairway to
> Heaven) and fellow producer J. Michael Straczynski (Babylon 5) had an
> idea to "re-boot" Star Trek - an idea that ultimately never came to
> fruition, though it caught the attention of Trek fans. Since then, the
> news has emerged that Mission: Impossible III director J.J. Abrams is
> developing his own take on Star Trek for a proposed 11th film. And
> Zabel has chosen to post the 14-page treatment he and Straczynski
> developed on his own blog so that fans can finally get a look at the
> Trek that might have been.
>
> The treatment called for a re-imagining of the original series,
> centering on the three main characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy, set
> on the U.S.S. Enterprise on its first five-year mission to "seek out
> new worlds and new civilizations, to boldly go where no person has
> gone before." The new version of the show would have featured a new
> cast and new storylines, while adhering to the established mythology
> of the series.
>
> "We wanted to do what they do in the world of comics, create a
> separate universe so we could embrace the good stuff, banish the bad,
> and try some new things," Zabel wrote on his blog. "We wanted to use
> Kirk, Spock and McCoy, but show them off as you'd never seen them
> before."
>
> So why release the treatment now? "Might as well let the fans who'd
> heard about it and wanted to see it, see it," Zabel wrote.
>
> http://bztv.typepad.com/newsviews/2006/06/spaced_out_star.ht ml
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279286 ] |
Mi, 21 Juni 2006 02:51 |
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Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
Respectfully, I disagree. IMHO their story has not been thoroughly well
told.
If we don't like it, we can always dismiss it as a lameass retcon (or
whatever).
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279289 ] |
Mi, 21 Juni 2006 05:05 |
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I disagree after watching "New Voyages". It was a bit of a jolt seeing
other actors playing Kirk, Spock and McCoy but you get used to it. I
would be even better if Kirk didn't have Elvis hair!
Also keep in mind that although folks like us are the core if the
franchise is going to thrive "normal" people are going to have to put
down their hard earned money to buy movie tickets and most of them don't
have strong feelings about Shatner and company... and many of them think
of Shatner as some horny old man from a lawyer show anyway <G>.
Jeff DeWitt
Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
> everyone??
>
> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>
> Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
> tell *new* stories.
>
> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to still
> tell interesting, gripping stories. Their only real advance over the
> tech Kirk had in his day is site-to-site transporting and
> total-immersion video games. Even the trekverse galaxy is a very very
> very big place, with lots of adventure still left in it.
>
> *****
>
> The Joker in the Eeeeeeeeeevil Cabal deck of cards.
>
> "You're a figment of my imagination- the *least* you could do is take
> your top off!!"
> Rodney McKay to his hallucination of Samantha Carter
>
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279295 ] |
Do, 22 Juni 2006 01:50 |
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ToolPackinMama wrote:
> Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
>
>> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
>> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
>> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>
> Respectfully, I disagree. IMHO their story has not been thoroughly well
> told.
>
> If we don't like it, we can always dismiss it as a lameass retcon (or
> whatever).
Who knows, maybe a re-do of TOS would cover your K/S fantasies!
WK
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279296 ] |
Do, 22 Juni 2006 02:34 |
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Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> I disagree after watching "New Voyages". It was a bit of a jolt seeing
> other actors playing Kirk, Spock and McCoy but you get used to it. I
> would be even better if Kirk didn't have Elvis hair!
>
> Also keep in mind that although folks like us are the core if the
> franchise is going to thrive "normal" people are going to have to put
> down their hard earned money to buy movie tickets and most of them don't
> have strong feelings about Shatner and company... and many of them think
> of Shatner as some horny old man from a lawyer show anyway <G>.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
>
> Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
>> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
>> everyone??
>>
>> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
>> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
>> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>>
>> Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>> tell *new* stories.
>>
>> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to still
>> tell interesting, gripping stories. Their only real advance over the
>> tech Kirk had in his day is site-to-site transporting and
>> total-immersion video games. Even the trekverse galaxy is a very very
>> very big place, with lots of adventure still left in it.
>>
>> *****
>>
>> The Joker in the Eeeeeeeeeevil Cabal deck of cards.
>>
>> "You're a figment of my imagination- the *least* you could do is take
>> your top off!!"
>> Rodney McKay to his hallucination of Samantha Carter
>>
I don't know if Bozo actually read the treatment, but they make a very
good point by reminding us of the different people that have portrayed
Batman, Superman and James Bond, and these movies have continued to make
money.
Story line is everything!!!
Also another possibility is that in ST VI, Sulu has command of his own
ship. Not one of the "Big Three" characters, so, maybe putting a new
actor in this character would not offend to many died in the wool fans.
Or a totally different ship!
Daniel
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279312 ] |
Fr, 23 Juni 2006 00:24 |
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Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
> everyone??
>
> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>
No, if they're iconic characters, they can be played by new actors. What you
mean is they're iconic performances, which is different. Either way, I think
after the initial culture shock, a good series with new actors in those
roles would work. It really would depend on whether it was a good series or
not.
Personally, I'm very much in favour of a reboot- though I wasn't too
impressed with this one (the quest for the ancient race seemed a bit lame to
me).
Ian
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279313 ] |
Fr, 23 Juni 2006 00:47 |
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"Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:1150838475.665971.55170 [at] p79g2000cwp.googlegroups.com...
> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
> everyone??
>
> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>
> Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
> tell *new* stories.
>
> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to still
> tell interesting, gripping stories. Their only real advance over the
> tech Kirk had in his day is site-to-site transporting and
> total-immersion video games. Even the trekverse galaxy is a very very
> very big place, with lots of adventure still left in it.
>
> *****
>
Hey, if Ron Moore handeled the reboot... worked wonders for BG!
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279314 ] |
Fr, 23 Juni 2006 01:04 |
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"Jaxtraw" <jax [at] knickersjaxtrawstudios.com> wrote...
> No, if they're iconic characters, they can be played by new actors. What
> you
> mean is they're iconic performances, which is different. Either way, I
> think
> after the initial culture shock, a good series with new actors in those
> roles would work. It really would depend on whether it was a good series
> or
> not.
>
> Personally, I'm very much in favour of a reboot- though I wasn't too
> impressed with this one (the quest for the ancient race seemed a bit lame
> to
> me).
Same here. I don't see any reason why a new interpretation of the
original with different actors couldn't work, so long as a) enough time
has passed for the original to become dated and non-credible as a
predictive work (hasn't happened yet, IMO) and b) all temptation
to shift the characters and setting out of the original's context is
resisted. I have no particular interest in seeing any depiction of Kirk,
Spock and McCoy as twenty-something or younger academy cadets
or new grads, and don't think I would even if you could somehow
reach back into time and beyond the grave to put Roddenberry and
his original team back at the helm with younger incarnations of Shatner,
Nimoy and Kelley in the roles. Starfleet Academy would have been
a terrible concept for a series in 1966 or for a film in 1979, and it isn't
going to be one bit better a year or two or twenty from now.
GeneK
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279336 ] |
Fr, 23 Juni 2006 18:02 |
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Daniel wrote:
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> > I disagree after watching "New Voyages". It was a bit of a jolt seeing
> > other actors playing Kirk, Spock and McCoy but you get used to it. I
> > would be even better if Kirk didn't have Elvis hair!
> >
> > Also keep in mind that although folks like us are the core if the
> > franchise is going to thrive "normal" people are going to have to put
> > down their hard earned money to buy movie tickets and most of them don't
> > have strong feelings about Shatner and company... and many of them think
> > of Shatner as some horny old man from a lawyer show anyway <G>.
> >
> > Jeff DeWitt
> >
> > Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> >> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
> >> everyone??
> >>
> >> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
> >> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
> >> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
> >>
> >> Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
> >> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
> >> tell *new* stories.
> >>
> >> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to still
> >> tell interesting, gripping stories. Their only real advance over the
> >> tech Kirk had in his day is site-to-site transporting and
> >> total-immersion video games. Even the trekverse galaxy is a very very
> >> very big place, with lots of adventure still left in it.
> >>
> >> *****
> >>
> >> The Joker in the Eeeeeeeeeevil Cabal deck of cards.
> >>
> >> "You're a figment of my imagination- the *least* you could do is take
> >> your top off!!"
> >> Rodney McKay to his hallucination of Samantha Carter
> >>
>
> I don't know if Bozo actually read the treatment, but they make a very
> good point by reminding us of the different people that have portrayed
> Batman, Superman and James Bond, and these movies have continued to make
> money.
>
My Acrobat wasn't acrobatic enough to pull up the file.
Yes, multiple folk have played superheroes- but when was Batman ever a
real, multilayered character except in "The Dark Knight Returns?" When
was Superman a complex, believable character except in "Kingdom Come?"
When was James Bond ever more than a 1/4 dimension character, well...
ever?
IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
*very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
front of a paper-mache boulder.
And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
> Story line is everything!!!
>
Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
happens.
*****
The Joker in the Eeeeeeeeeevil Cabal deck of cards.
"You're a figment of my imagination- the *least* you could do is take
your top off!!"
Rodney McKay to his hallucination of Samantha Carter
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279339 ] |
Fr, 23 Juni 2006 20:26 |
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"Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>> >> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>> >> tell *new* stories.
>> >>
>> >> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>> >> still
>> >> tell interesting, gripping stories.
> IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
> exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
> really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
> *very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
> disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
> front of a paper-mache boulder.
>
> And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
> Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>
Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>> Story line is everything!!!
>>
> Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
> for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
> you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
> what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
> happens.
This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279345 ] |
Sa, 24 Juni 2006 03:02 |
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VernonT wrote:
> "Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>
>>>>>Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>>>>>kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>>>>>tell *new* stories.
>>>>>
>>>>>And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>>>>>still
>>>>>tell interesting, gripping stories.
>
>
>>IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
>>exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
>>really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
>>*very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
>>disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
>>front of a paper-mache boulder.
>>
>>And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
>>Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>>
>
>
>
> Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>
>>>Story line is everything!!!
>>>
>>
>>Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
>>for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
>>you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
>>what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
>>happens.
>
>
> This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
> loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>
>
Your absolutely right about the importance of good characters for a
continuing story but with all due respect for the man Shatner is really
not a very good actor. There was a chemistry between him and Nimoy that
came through and of course that was a part of the magic, but Shatner is
a bit of a ham. He also seems to know that and has fun with it, which
is why his character in Boston Legal is so good.
Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279354 ] |
Sa, 24 Juni 2006 18:11 |
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in article za0ng.1516$so3.1262 [at] southeast.rr.com, Jeff DeWitt at
JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com wrote on 6/23/06 6:02 PM:
> VernonT wrote:
>> "Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>>> Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>>>>>> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>>>>>> tell *new* stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> tell interesting, gripping stories.
>>
>>
>>> IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
>>> exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
>>> really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
>>> *very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
>>> disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
>>> front of a paper-mache boulder.
>>>
>>> And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
>>> Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Story line is everything!!!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
>>> for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
>>> you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
>>> what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
>>> happens.
>>
>>
>> This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
>> loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>>
>>
> Your absolutely right about the importance of good characters for a
> continuing story but with all due respect for the man Shatner is really
> not a very good actor.
Except for the part where he is. Check out his early stuff like The
Andersonville Trials or The Brothers Kararararamazamov.
There was a chemistry between him and Nimoy that
> came through and of course that was a part of the magic, but Shatner is
> a bit of a ham. He also seems to know that and has fun with it, which
> is why his character in Boston Legal is so good.
>
> Jeff DeWitt
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #279356 ] |
Sa, 24 Juni 2006 19:27 |
|
ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
> in article za0ng.1516$so3.1262 [at] southeast.rr.com, Jeff DeWitt at
> JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com wrote on 6/23/06 6:02 PM:
>
>
>>VernonT wrote:
>>
>>>"Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>>news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>
>>>>>>>Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>>>>>>>kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>>>>>>>tell *new* stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>>>>>>>still
>>>>>>>tell interesting, gripping stories.
>>>
>>>
>>>>IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
>>>>exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
>>>>really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
>>>>*very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
>>>>disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
>>>>front of a paper-mache boulder.
>>>>
>>>>And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
>>>>Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Story line is everything!!!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
>>>>for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
>>>>you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
>>>>what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
>>>>happens.
>>>
>>>
>>>This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
>>>loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Your absolutely right about the importance of good characters for a
>>continuing story but with all due respect for the man Shatner is really
>>not a very good actor.
>
>
> Except for the part where he is. Check out his early stuff like The
> Andersonville Trials or The Brothers Kararararamazamov.
Hmm, never saw those, but he was on an episode of "The FBI" last night,
played a junkie crook.
Jeff DeWitt
>
> There was a chemistry between him and Nimoy that
>
>>came through and of course that was a part of the magic, but Shatner is
>>a bit of a ham. He also seems to know that and has fun with it, which
>>is why his character in Boston Legal is so good.
>>
>>Jeff DeWitt
>
>
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #290962 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 01:16 |
|
> And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
> Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
Or, from a certain song, "boldy going forward 'cos we can't find
reverse!" ;-)
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #290966 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 04:26 |
|
Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
> everyone??
>
> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>
> Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
> tell *new* stories.
What I would like them to do is use "Trials and Tribble-ations" as a
jumping-off point and set a new show on the Exeter, or the Yorktown, or
whatever, using TOS-era technology, sets, and costumes. Jazz it up with
some TNG-style special effects, but not too much. Shatner and Nimoy
could contribute if you heard their voices but didn't see them.
|
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #290967 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 04:28 |
|
Wunderkind wrote:
> ToolPackinMama wrote:
>> Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
>>
>>> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
>>> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
>>> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>>
>> Respectfully, I disagree. IMHO their story has not been thoroughly
>> well told.
>>
>> If we don't like it, we can always dismiss it as a lameass retcon (or
>> whatever).
>
> Who knows, maybe a re-do of TOS would cover your K/S fantasies!
I don't think I'd use "lameass" and "K/S fantasies" in the same
sentence, or at least in two consecutive sentences.
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #290979 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 05:11 |
|
Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> VernonT wrote:
>> "Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>>>>> Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>>>>>> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>>>>>> tell *new* stories.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> tell interesting, gripping stories.
>>
>>
>>> IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
>>> exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
>>> really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
>>> *very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
>>> disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
>>> front of a paper-mache boulder.
>>>
>>> And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
>>> Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>>> Story line is everything!!!
>>>>
>>>
>>> Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
>>> for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
>>> you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
>>> what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
>>> happens.
>>
>>
>> This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
>> loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>>
>>
> Your absolutely right about the importance of good characters for a
> continuing story but with all due respect for the man Shatner is really
> not a very good actor. There was a chemistry between him and Nimoy that
> came through and of course that was a part of the magic, but Shatner is
> a bit of a ham.
Well that can't be -- he's Jewish.
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #290980 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 05:18 |
|
Jeff DeWitt wrote:
> ANIM8Rfsk wrote:
>> in article za0ng.1516$so3.1262 [at] southeast.rr.com, Jeff DeWitt at
>> JeffDeWitt [at] nc.rr.com wrote on 6/23/06 6:02 PM:
>>
>>
>>> VernonT wrote:
>>>
>>>> "Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>>>>>>>> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>>>>>>>> tell *new* stories.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>>> tell interesting, gripping stories.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
>>>>> exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
>>>>> really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
>>>>> *very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
>>>>> disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
>>>>> front of a paper-mache boulder.
>>>>>
>>>>> And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
>>>>> Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>> Story line is everything!!!
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but
>>>>> (*especially*
>>>>> for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important,
>>>>> too. If
>>>>> you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or
>>>>> relate to
>>>>> what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see
>>>>> what
>>>>> happens.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
>>>> loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> Your absolutely right about the importance of good characters for a
>>> continuing story but with all due respect for the man Shatner is really
>>> not a very good actor.
>>
>>
>> Except for the part where he is. Check out his early stuff like The
>> Andersonville Trials or The Brothers Kararararamazamov.
>
> Hmm, never saw those, but he was on an episode of "The FBI" last night,
> played a junkie crook.
Was he like a "CONNNNNNNNN!" man?
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #290982 ] |
Di, 27 Juni 2006 06:20 |
|
Eric Newman wrote:
> Jeff DeWitt wrote:
>
>> VernonT wrote:
>>
>>> "Bozo the Evil Klown" <Evilklowwn [at] aol.com> wrote in message
>>> news:1151078527.504221.288890 [at] c74g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
>>>
>>>>>>> Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>>>>>>> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>>>>>>> tell *new* stories.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And *********NO*********, 24th Century tech isn't too advanced to
>>>>>>> still
>>>>>>> tell interesting, gripping stories.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> IMO a large part of the characters of Kirk, Spock and McCoy were the
>>>> exceptional performances that Shatner, Nimoy and Kelley made that
>>>> really made these men come alive for us. In addition, there was a
>>>> *very* rare chemistry between these three that made suspension of
>>>> disbelief very very easy for us- even when waving wood-carved props in
>>>> front of a paper-mache boulder.
>>>>
>>>> And I stand by my growing contempt for prequels; to quote Captain
>>>> Picard: "We can't go back; we have to go forward."
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Amen!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Story line is everything!!!
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
>>>> for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
>>>> you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
>>>> what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
>>>> happens.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
>>> loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>>>
>>>
>> Your absolutely right about the importance of good characters for a
>> continuing story but with all due respect for the man Shatner is
>> really not a very good actor. There was a chemistry between him and
>> Nimoy that came through and of course that was a part of the magic,
>> but Shatner is a bit of a ham.
>
>
> Well that can't be -- he's Jewish.
As the immortal Homer would say... "DOH!"
Jeff DeWitt
|
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #291982 ] |
Mi, 28 Juni 2006 06:45 |
|
in article RH0og.13501$%h.11298 [at] news-wrt-01.rdc-nyc.rr.com, Eric Newman at
navamske [at] mac.com wrote on 6/26/06 7:26 PM:
> Bozo the Evil Klown wrote:
>> Why reboot? Didn't "Secondprize" re-write Trek history enough for
>> everyone??
>>
>> Seriously, as has been hashed out already Kirk, Spock and McCoy are
>> such iconic characters that even with *the* best actors on the planet,
>> getting new guys to play our heroes simply would never fly.
>>
>> Second, Hollywood ***NEEDS*** to get off this stupid, insipid prequel
>> kick. Take up at the end of the 24th Century and get a new cast to
>> tell *new* stories.
>
> What I would like them to do is use "Trials and Tribble-ations" as a
> jumping-off point and set a new show on the Exeter, or the Yorktown,
or the Constellation
or
> whatever, using TOS-era technology, sets, and costumes. Jazz it up with
> some TNG-style special effects, but not too much. Shatner and Nimoy
> could contribute if you heard their voices but didn't see them.
|
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #292298 ] |
Mi, 28 Juni 2006 18:31 |
|
>
> The "secret genetic code" hidden in the DNA of all sentient races was
> one of the bad episodes of ST:TNG (Bad because it is bad science --
> really bad science -- the story itself was ok). B5 suffered from the
> bad science too (Telepaths are scientifically impossible, which means
> they are not science fiction. Fantasy perhaps, but not science
> fiction).
>
First of all, I feel that the "Genetic Code" device was interesting. I
agree that the episode was particuarly poor, but I think it was great
that they actually tried to explain why every single alien character
looked like a human in a mask. Even if the science behind it was
unsound, it was good enough for a tv show. As for the telepathy, thats
also a poor reason to dislike a tv show. Science fiction doesn't have
to be completley scientifically accurate (Then it would just be real
life). Science fiction must "appear" to be scientifically accurate. At
least that's my opinion.
But as for a reboot, if such a thing happened, wouldn't it be ignoring
the years of trek history behind it? I wouldn't mind seeing a reboot,
but Im sure many fans would get annoyed that certain events that occur
in the reboot wouldn't fit into the story of the original series.
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| Re: - Secret Trek Treatment Revealed [message #293601 ] |
Fr, 30 Juni 2006 16:09 |
|
>>>
>> Not disputing the extreme importance of a good story, but (*especially*
>> for a continuing series) *characters* are extremely important, too. If
>> you don't care or relate to the characters, you won't care or relate to
>> what happens to them- and thus won't be tuning in next week to see what
>> happens.
>
> This is so true and perfectly to the point that you are in danger of
> loosing your "Bozo" handle. Nothing 'bozo' about your points here.
>
Actually that is part of the reason that his many friends in the group, such
as myself, have difficulty calling him bozo, eg I tend to use boze myself.
You see he very rarely makes any ludicrous comments, and the few times he
has made them it has been completely obvious he was simply making a joke.
Over the years we have had many real science posts in the group and, despite
the fact that he and I often take diametrically opposed positions in the
debates that ensue, I can honestly say that over dozens (perhaps hundreds)
of debates during the better part of a decade he has only once offered a
point that I could dismiss completely out of hand. Indeed his debating skill
is one of the things I like most about him, and I sometimes find myself
arguing a point simply because I know he will effectively challenge my
position.
cheers
fozzi
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